the Vortex
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Ever ancient, ever new.
February 3, 2022 46 Comments
TRANSCRIPT
Click here to buy the book Ever Ancient, Ever New: Why Younger Generations are Embracing Traditional Catholicism.
It's no secret that much of the juice behind the move to the Latin Mass is coming from younger Catholics. Pope Francis has even publicly expressed his puzzlement over it, wondering out loud what would be attracting young people — who had no experience of the Church prior to Vatican II — to begin embracing tradition.
So when he published Traditionis Custodes, essentially slamming traditional-minded Catholics and marginalizing the Latin Mass in what sure looks like an attempt to completely destroy it, young Catholics, in particular, went on the offensive.
Crotalus • 23 minutes ago Most of the people very opposed to the TLM are of a certain age - they were in their teens or early twenties when all the changes were coming about, and they probably embraced them in the revolutionary fervour of the 1960 and 70s. Some people never really grow out of the world-view they held as radical teenagers, so just carry on in the same way, ageing into old hippies, rather than maturing in their beliefs. For them to ever admit they were wrong, despite the overwhelming evidence, becomes virtually impossible for them.
PJ Tumnus • 23 minutes ago The Pope may think that he can control the narrative, that Our Traditions are outdated and so forth. But, his power as a pontiff is limited, even with his signature the falsehoods, lies are blatantly obvious. And the Faithful will reject his pronouncements, as they are rejecting him as a man now in mass. TC will go down as one great PR Plunder on Bergoglio's part. By it's dissemination---the Faithful have been made completely aware of the importance of the TLM and many young priests have taken it upon themselves to learn to say the TLM. Thank you Bergoglio and crew for making us all aware of how great our Tradition is----And the Latin Mass.
mrgees • 27 minutes ago • edited I have practically met only one type of defense of NO (I am attending NO, btw.) That "finally" the priest faces the people. My only response to them is "so maybe everyone should now turn towards you at the Holy Mass?" I have not heard a coherent response to that, but it opens me with the possibility to explain why things were they were and the reason for that. That the altar is visible part of the invisible throne of God, that the priest is In Persona Christi who offers His Body to the Father who sits on that throne, and not to us. That it is only the priest who does it on our behalf, and that our priesthood is different that the Priest's one. That we should not hold our hands or holding other peoples hands during Our Father but rather hold them begging like we did during First Communion. I won't even mention the fact that these people do not even know why we go to Church, what's the difference between redemption and salvation, why we can't go to Heaven without Sanctifying Grace, why God loves satan, etc. At that time they have eyes of the dear in the night facing headlights...
Cajun Robear • 29 minutes ago Step by step. Inch by inch. If left alone without opposition, the heretics will totally eliminate the TLM and ultimately Jesus Christ from the church. Satan sits in St. Peter's chair.
Rush Glick • 34 minutes ago "Pope Francis has even publicly expressed his puzzlement over it, wondering out loud what would be attracting young people — who had no experience of the Church prior to Vatican II — to begin embracing tradition."
Leftists just don't get it.
Fred Johnson Rush Glick • 27 minutes ago PF should be hugely embarrassed that he asked that question aloud. Something to mull over with his fellow Commies perhaps, but to betray in public his lack of understanding of Tradition's appeal?
I think his comment ranks right up there with Bp Barron and his "privileged way" idiocy.
Better to be thought a fool and remain silent etc. etc.
kristinechristlieb • 34 minutes ago • edited Just asking ... what about celebrating the traditional Latin Mass in one's native language? I'm not a big fan of Latin, primarily because I think it is a barrier to winning people to Christ. I know, it's beautiful in Latin and the aesthetic draws some people into the church ... but back to my question ... what about celebrating the traditional Mass in English? I also think some people falsely believe that prayers, Mass, etc are somehow more powerful when spoken in Latin. I don't think we want to promote that kind of thinking.
Rush Glick kristinechristlieb • 4 minutes ago An 84-year-old gentleman spoke at he school where I teach earlier this week. He is a Catholic who was born in Hungary and was a young child during the Nazi occupation. His family hid Jews from the Nazis, and, then after the war ended, the Russian took over and things were no better under the communists. In 1956, he left to Austria and from there he came as a refugee to the U.S. Ending up in Iowa, and having no understanding of our culture or of the English language, he happened to find a Catholic church nearby. Entering the church he heard Mass...the LATIN Mass, as this was pre-Vatican II. Since he grew up with the Latin Mass in his early youth (before it was restricted by the communists in his native country), he understood what was being said, and he expressed just how powerful this was to him at that moment in his life.
If Latin were used again in the Catholic Church, it would TRULY be CATHOLIC...that is UNIVERSAL. One could attend Mass anywhere in the world and understand the language used at Mass. I would happily attend Latin classes to better understand what was being said during a Latin Mass. In the meantime, I would be happy with a Latin-English guide. I would imagine that very soon, one could basically understand the language used during Mass. Of course, the readings and the homily are presented in English, so that's not an issue. Also, I, having not yet attended a Latin Mass, suspect that the music would be more traditional and inspiring, and I would appreciate that.
I have found a church in my area that offers the Latin Rite, and I plan to see for myself what it is like. I came to the Church late in life, and, perhaps at least in that respect, I am something of a "youth" regarding Catholicism. I appreciate very deeply the traditions of our Church, but for some time I have had the feeling that we only swimming on the surface when I attend Mass.
chooselife2012 kristinechristlieb • 25 minutes ago You need to read information from several exorcist that have addressed use of Latin in prayer, esp during exorcism.
I think Pope Pius V would disagree w/ your judgements.
Please don't make this a we against them mind set, that type of thinking is helps no one
God Bless & peace to you
TGG • 39 minutes ago When you receive Holy Communion at the NO Mass the Priest or lay minister says "The Body of Christ". At the TLM the Priest says "May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul unto life everlasting. Amen."(in Latin). As a faithful Catholic which would you prefer? Why was this changed after Vatican II?
AcceptingReality • 43 minutes ago I agree with Alexander. We're Roman Catholics. Not Traditional Catholics. We need to flip the script and start calling the others Novus Ordo Catholics. Or New Order Catholics. Or Modernist Catholics. Or Progressivist Catholics.
The average New Order Catholic has been propagandized through many different pastoral movements, like Charismatic Renewal, to think Roman Catholics are rigid and that the priest turns his back on them. We can flip the script here too. In the New Order the priest turns his back on God!
Robbi AcceptingReality • 39 minutes ago Why not just add 'Communist Catholics' and 'Nazi Catholics'...Since so many of the words you place before Catholic are merely words to make the totalitarian/authoritarian nature sound nice just like the political party calling itself 'Democrat' that isn't. That's the key..."Isn't". It "ISN'T real Catholic?
AcceptingReality Robbi • 34 minutes ago • edited Robbi, true, there is more shock value with your suggestions. But, I think my suggestions are just as bad if not as shocking. Modernism is a heresy. And that's not at all good or nice. Progressivism is synonymous with Communist. New Order is synonymous with the Great Reset. I view all of those in the most negative light. And the use of those prefixes clearly implies that their movement departs from the actual Catholic Faith.
Unprofitable Servant • an hour ago After 58 years growing up with and attending the NO mass and loving our Lord greatly, they (Bishops) took it away from us when we needed it the most. I found the TLM about 20 mins away and never knew it still existed.
I sat there the first time, very few wearing a mask, there was no fear and such a great Transcendence that I never experience before. The 100+ year old church surroundings were just wonderful. This past Christmas High Mass was Mozart's mass in C major K. 220. It was like I was sitting at the gates of heaven never experienced a Holy Mass like it. I've been learning Latin, A few times I've gone back to NO and the fear still exists. I believe the English is fine but the Ad Orientem and receiving on the tongue on our knees must return if people are going to understand that Jesus is truly present before us.
chooselife2012 Unprofitable Servant • 16 minutes ago Exactly true. I have asked the question, if all the changes in V 2 we're so great, why have so many left, why is the youth absent and most importantly what do 70% of so called Catholics no longer believe in the true presence ?
Speaking in regard to the NO - I attribute it to a complete watering down of the faith, removing the Tabernacle from behind the Altar to a side spot or worse yet in another room. Forcing people to stand and receive in the hand.
The TLM, is a completely different experience. Reverence, beauty, respect and yes tradition. Why should we be penalized or have that taken away, again!
Robbi Unprofitable Servant • 44 minutes ago Can recall what you're talking about...Never understood the reason Communion procedures changed until much older. It should never have been changed. Humans need to kneel and bow to our Lord and Savior...It matters to keep us in the right frame of reference for life.
Lucy Pipes • an hour ago Our bishop restricted the TLM to one location in the entire diocese. I would have to give up my ministry as a catechist to make the 3 hour drive to go, so I have found ways to improve my worship in Mass. I wear a chapel veil, say St. Thomas prayers of preparation and thanksgiving before & after Mass, and kneel "up" instead of the sit/kneel like that is common even among the physically able. Most importantly, I receive kneeling and on the tongue. That last one slows things down a little bit, but that is also a good thing. Our current pastor says, "The body of Christ" as soon as the person who just received has stepped to the side and before the next person has stepped forward. He says it so quickly that it sounds like "The but of Christ" I break that up a little bit. We have a few other women who veil, and I'm hoping that, in time, others will begin kneeling to receive.
Yesterday I visited my Spiritual Director and we believe that the Church would see a big revival if they made two key changes to the NO: Ad orientem and reception kneeling and on the tongue.
KFMcGahey • an hour ago This is really about drawing deeper from the same well, where the water is clearer and more refreshing, and closer to the well spring, which is Christ.
mrstones4u • 2 hours ago My wife and I have a Catholic Church 1.5 miles from our house where they chose to have a pool chlorinater in the Baptismal font!!! Instead we travel 20 miles to An Institute of Christ the King Latin Mass. Over the two+ years that we have been going there, I asked at two different times two different Altar servers one 15 & one 17 ,"Why do you like attending the Latin Mass"? Both responded ,"BECAUSE OF THE REVERENT WORSHIP"! We even have a Priest from the Diocese that attends, he is 76 and says it's beauty reminds him of when he was younger!
AcceptingReality mrstones4u • an hour ago That's just nuts! It's gotta be worth the 20 mile drive....good choice.
mrstones4u AcceptingReality • 28 minutes ago A Couple of years ago a Nun who was on the staff there, sachied up to the Sanctuary in a Rainbow sach!
mrstones4u AcceptingReality • 30 minutes ago Last Saturday we went to the Sacrament of Reconcilliation there and after attended Mass only to have the Pastor share from our Bishop No Eucharist on the Tongue there! Really? Worth the 20 mile drive, where one can accept Jesus in a Reverent way. HE is God and I am not!
John Bedard mrstones4u • 2 hours ago • edited "My wife and I have a Catholic Church 1.5 miles from our house where they chose to have a pool chlorinater in the Baptismal font!!!"
OH, Dear Jesus, THAT IS SO SAD!
John Bedard • 2 hours ago • edited Michael, I think in a VORTEX, has said that bringing back the Latin Mass will not be a cure-all for the Church. I think we can agree on that, but, it would be a GREAT help. I'm 72 and was an Altar Boy at the Latin Mass, that's when I started seeing ABUSE during Mass. Abuse started way before Vatican II. The Liberal, Modernist, don't only HATE the Latin Mass, they HATE the NO Mass. In reality they not only REJECTED Vatican II they have REJECTED "ALL" the Councils. They are apostates & Pope Francis just said they are among the "Communion of Saints". In my life I was surrounded by "Cultural" Catholics going to Mass out of Obligation. I praise God for my Dad's conversion & speaking Truth to Power!
The young men in the video realize the reality that they NEED Order and Beauty in their life. They NEED something to DIE for. In this case "SOMEONE" to DIE for. I support what they are trying to do 100%! I personally don't need their book, I lived it.
The Birth Control Pill / The DEATH Pill is the ATOMIC BOMB that set the APOSTATES free to join the Sexual Revolution.
Liberal, Nasty, Vicious, Lukewarm, Apostate, catholic's have rejected the KINGSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST!
VIVA CRISTO REY!
janofdet • 3 hours ago • edited It's not rocket science--modernism based on secular/political agendas, fed by millions and millions of dollars to try to "destroy" what cannot be destroyed! Young Trads.....God Bless You!
John R. • 4 hours ago Once you get past the error that you must understand Latin to fully participate, then you see just what a solid rock is the Mass of the ages and what thin-ice is the NO liturgy, This is especially obvious if circumstance brings you to attend the NO after having spent some time exclusively with the TLM - the mass, calendar, and devotions.
Robbi John R. • an hour ago • edited It's actually miraculous that anybody understands Latin since it wasn't taught or spoken at Mass often for decades; at least in this area. If not for the derivatives, it's doubtful anybody would understand anything. I would not understood any...Without Spanish since only the Novus Ordo was Mass in my lifetime until these recent years since Pope Benedict XVI. Never heard a TLM before grad school years ago...It was beautiful and special for a whole three months.
Tom Kaye John R. • 3 hours ago I have heard and read accounts of priests who were ordained in the Novus Ordo Rite tell how a certain change happened to them when they started to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.
janofdet Tom Kaye • 3 hours ago Fr. Altman comes to mind. Have not heard much about him lately. Hope he is doing well.
Drew Pointkouski • 4 hours ago • edited When the Leftists speak badly about something, we should already know they are wrong! When Bergoglio trashes Traditional minded Catholics, it is like Pelosi calling us nazis ... meaningless! They change and twist language to make things confusing but the Truth is perfectly clear. The Truth is easy to see, like the Light shining in the darkness! Remember the USCCB had to meet and discuss, whether they should make statement about the Eucharist, twisting, convoluted words, ignoring pro abort "catholics" unworthy reception, "dialoging" - i.e, verbal circle jerk, fearing that they would be unliked by the World! Do you think the Apostles needed to hem and haw about how to Preach about The Real Presence of Our Lord and Savior in the Holy Eucharist??? Our Leftist prelates are a sham ... we should be on our knees with our Rosaries everyday, begging Our Lord to remove these charlatans from office! Why would this pope try to suppress the Traditional Latin Mass? The same reason the Leftists are trying to destroy America! They work for EVIL.
Robbi Drew Pointkouski • an hour ago Is it really that simple? Simplicity is generally the best answer, for sure. All is so well orchestrated at every level of every aspect of society. Too orchestrated...Just doesn't FEEL right. It's a gut instinct...The kind of evil is just not adding-up. It's difficult for me to actually 'think' evil, but I can when I pray for answers.
springfieldlp Drew Pointkouski • 4 hours ago Drew, you have asked the most important question. Why is the pope attacking and restricting the TLM? What spiritual good can come of this? What harm are these faithful Catholics and their traditional priests doing to Mother Church? We must hold this pope to account for wrecking that which is only good.
John Paul springfieldlp • 3 hours ago We will soon see the “ecumenical mass” which will be the abomination of desolation described in the Book of Daniel.
Bobbie John Paul • 30 minutes ago Please don’t say that. It’s frightening to imagine. At the rate things are happening, it’s a possibility that the next unorthodox pope will indeed bring it about. It grieves me.
Tom Kaye • 5 hours ago • edited If Pope Bergoglio has never read Quo Primum shame on him.
If Pope Bergoglio has read Quo Primum may God have mercy on him.
Rick Pearl • 8 hours ago • edited I'm proud to be a Tradrad (traditional radical). In this civil war our enemies are Neom&ms or just m&ms (Neo-modernists&marxists.
Michelle Campbell • 9 hours ago • edited Trying to maintain Modernism, 'the Synthesis of all Heresies' is just pathetic and
when these heterodox prelates act in ways hysterical, it's telling.
'...essentially slamming Traditional-minded Catholics and marginalizing the Latin Mass to completely destroy it' should have the Catholic young curiously asking
why? 'Spiritual Warfare' is what's going on and Holy Tradition IMHO is the cement that
the young want to connect with God and past souls who clung to the Faith in their families and those they read about who became saints.
Many Catholic ancestors took the calling to pray the rosary, fast, give alms, sacrifice, make reparation, do penance to console Our Lord & Lady and when done,
we sense Their pleasure and sweet smiles.
That one commenter who said they found their Irish grandfather who had passed away in his chair with his rosary in his hand...what a moment to remember and learn from. 🍀📿☘
Maybe Bergoglio the young insist on staying connected to Holy Tradition because their 'being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine' gets confusing and tiring.
You said, 'I want the confusion'.
These young Catholics are rejecting your ridiculous ideas wanting Eternal Substance and Matter found not only in consuming Our Blessed Lord in His Eucharist, but in the ancient Liturgy and Litany of the Saints.
WHEN SUNG, that Litany is powerful with Heavenly ears bent towards starving souls eager for connection with Saintly helpers....
Let us learn from these Catholic youth.
Bless you dear Alexander Tschugguel and dear EVER ANCIENT, EVER NEW author David Dashiell.
Thank you Michael. Was thinking about Alexander a couple of days now hoping
his Rosary town marches protesting those awful lockdowns were bearing fruit.
So good to see him again! God love you all.
Will remember you in my rosaries and chaplets this week.
Thursday February 3rd Feastdays: St Blaise (316) B., M., Pt. of those with throat ailments; Blessing of Throats (Trad) 🗣 & St Ansgar (865) B., Pt. of Scandinavia. ✝️
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Architect • 9 hours ago Good to see Alexander T. See on YT Taylor Marshall's recent remake of John Lennon's "Imagine." The new title is "Imagine No Felt Banners" and the video includes tossing Pachamamas into Tiber.
Architect • 9 hours ago "Unity of the Church" is usually peddled as the main excuse for the aggressive suppression of the Latin Mass. It's a 100% bogus excuse because those who use it are at the same time promoting, or being dead silent, about the plague of sodomy among Catholic priests and bishops. And nothing actually undermines unity in the Church as sodomite clergy.
Love for Vatican II is another 100% bogus excuse. If Bergoglio cared so much about Vatican II, he wouldn't sell out Catholics to the regime of China and let the marxists govt' pick bishops, which had been expressly forbidden at Vatican II (Decree Christus Dominus #20).
Tom Kaye Architect • 4 hours ago • edited If I may comment in addition to what you have written regarding "Unity of the Church". Who do these peddlers think they are trying to fool? Since 1570 AD when Pope St. Pius V issued Quo Primum, the supreme worship of the Church unified all Catholics worldwide. Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi (The law of what is prayed is what is believed is the law of what is lived.)
The widespread abuses that have been reoccurring nonstop throughout the Novus Ordo for over fifty years, i.e. "gay" Masses, is a deliberate attempt by some to subvert traditional Church teaching. Liturgical traditions provide a theological framework for establishing creeds and canons. Those who perpetuate these abuses know full well what they're doing. The attitude of experimentation in regards to the litutgy was introduced in different parts of the world immediately after Vatican II ended. The motivation for this experimentation has grown clearer and clearer as time has passed until we have come to the point where, for example, pachamama is now welcomed in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. This attitude, this motivation, this blasphemy can only divide.
Bobbie Tom Kaye • 12 minutes ago “Those who perpetuate these abuses know full well…”. That’s true Tom. Not all NO masses are like that. The NO mass seemed to have brought many people to the Church - but that was many years ago. Now the same mass (those with abuses) have pushed people away. I still believe there’s a place for both masses to coexist and remain in harmony. What Bergoglio is doing in his tightening marginalization of TLM is part of his forcing socialism into the Church. It’s politically motivated bc that’s who he is. What a shame.
Crotalus • 23 minutes ago Most of the people very opposed to the TLM are of a certain age - they were in their teens or early twenties when all the changes were coming about, and they probably embraced them in the revolutionary fervour of the 1960 and 70s. Some people never really grow out of the world-view they held as radical teenagers, so just carry on in the same way, ageing into old hippies, rather than maturing in their beliefs. For them to ever admit they were wrong, despite the overwhelming evidence, becomes virtually impossible for them.
PJ Tumnus • 23 minutes ago The Pope may think that he can control the narrative, that Our Traditions are outdated and so forth. But, his power as a pontiff is limited, even with his signature the falsehoods, lies are blatantly obvious. And the Faithful will reject his pronouncements, as they are rejecting him as a man now in mass. TC will go down as one great PR Plunder on Bergoglio's part. By it's dissemination---the Faithful have been made completely aware of the importance of the TLM and many young priests have taken it upon themselves to learn to say the TLM. Thank you Bergoglio and crew for making us all aware of how great our Tradition is----And the Latin Mass.
mrgees • 27 minutes ago • edited I have practically met only one type of defense of NO (I am attending NO, btw.) That "finally" the priest faces the people. My only response to them is "so maybe everyone should now turn towards you at the Holy Mass?" I have not heard a coherent response to that, but it opens me with the possibility to explain why things were they were and the reason for that. That the altar is visible part of the invisible throne of God, that the priest is In Persona Christi who offers His Body to the Father who sits on that throne, and not to us. That it is only the priest who does it on our behalf, and that our priesthood is different that the Priest's one. That we should not hold our hands or holding other peoples hands during Our Father but rather hold them begging like we did during First Communion. I won't even mention the fact that these people do not even know why we go to Church, what's the difference between redemption and salvation, why we can't go to Heaven without Sanctifying Grace, why God loves satan, etc. At that time they have eyes of the dear in the night facing headlights...
Cajun Robear • 29 minutes ago Step by step. Inch by inch. If left alone without opposition, the heretics will totally eliminate the TLM and ultimately Jesus Christ from the church. Satan sits in St. Peter's chair.
Rush Glick • 34 minutes ago "Pope Francis has even publicly expressed his puzzlement over it, wondering out loud what would be attracting young people — who had no experience of the Church prior to Vatican II — to begin embracing tradition."
Leftists just don't get it.
Fred Johnson Rush Glick • 27 minutes ago PF should be hugely embarrassed that he asked that question aloud. Something to mull over with his fellow Commies perhaps, but to betray in public his lack of understanding of Tradition's appeal?
I think his comment ranks right up there with Bp Barron and his "privileged way" idiocy.
Better to be thought a fool and remain silent etc. etc.
kristinechristlieb • 34 minutes ago • edited Just asking ... what about celebrating the traditional Latin Mass in one's native language? I'm not a big fan of Latin, primarily because I think it is a barrier to winning people to Christ. I know, it's beautiful in Latin and the aesthetic draws some people into the church ... but back to my question ... what about celebrating the traditional Mass in English? I also think some people falsely believe that prayers, Mass, etc are somehow more powerful when spoken in Latin. I don't think we want to promote that kind of thinking.
Rush Glick kristinechristlieb • 4 minutes ago An 84-year-old gentleman spoke at he school where I teach earlier this week. He is a Catholic who was born in Hungary and was a young child during the Nazi occupation. His family hid Jews from the Nazis, and, then after the war ended, the Russian took over and things were no better under the communists. In 1956, he left to Austria and from there he came as a refugee to the U.S. Ending up in Iowa, and having no understanding of our culture or of the English language, he happened to find a Catholic church nearby. Entering the church he heard Mass...the LATIN Mass, as this was pre-Vatican II. Since he grew up with the Latin Mass in his early youth (before it was restricted by the communists in his native country), he understood what was being said, and he expressed just how powerful this was to him at that moment in his life.
If Latin were used again in the Catholic Church, it would TRULY be CATHOLIC...that is UNIVERSAL. One could attend Mass anywhere in the world and understand the language used at Mass. I would happily attend Latin classes to better understand what was being said during a Latin Mass. In the meantime, I would be happy with a Latin-English guide. I would imagine that very soon, one could basically understand the language used during Mass. Of course, the readings and the homily are presented in English, so that's not an issue. Also, I, having not yet attended a Latin Mass, suspect that the music would be more traditional and inspiring, and I would appreciate that.
I have found a church in my area that offers the Latin Rite, and I plan to see for myself what it is like. I came to the Church late in life, and, perhaps at least in that respect, I am something of a "youth" regarding Catholicism. I appreciate very deeply the traditions of our Church, but for some time I have had the feeling that we only swimming on the surface when I attend Mass.
chooselife2012 kristinechristlieb • 25 minutes ago You need to read information from several exorcist that have addressed use of Latin in prayer, esp during exorcism.
I think Pope Pius V would disagree w/ your judgements.
Please don't make this a we against them mind set, that type of thinking is helps no one
God Bless & peace to you
TGG • 39 minutes ago When you receive Holy Communion at the NO Mass the Priest or lay minister says "The Body of Christ". At the TLM the Priest says "May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul unto life everlasting. Amen."(in Latin). As a faithful Catholic which would you prefer? Why was this changed after Vatican II?
AcceptingReality • 43 minutes ago I agree with Alexander. We're Roman Catholics. Not Traditional Catholics. We need to flip the script and start calling the others Novus Ordo Catholics. Or New Order Catholics. Or Modernist Catholics. Or Progressivist Catholics.
The average New Order Catholic has been propagandized through many different pastoral movements, like Charismatic Renewal, to think Roman Catholics are rigid and that the priest turns his back on them. We can flip the script here too. In the New Order the priest turns his back on God!
Robbi AcceptingReality • 39 minutes ago Why not just add 'Communist Catholics' and 'Nazi Catholics'...Since so many of the words you place before Catholic are merely words to make the totalitarian/authoritarian nature sound nice just like the political party calling itself 'Democrat' that isn't. That's the key..."Isn't". It "ISN'T real Catholic?
AcceptingReality Robbi • 34 minutes ago • edited Robbi, true, there is more shock value with your suggestions. But, I think my suggestions are just as bad if not as shocking. Modernism is a heresy. And that's not at all good or nice. Progressivism is synonymous with Communist. New Order is synonymous with the Great Reset. I view all of those in the most negative light. And the use of those prefixes clearly implies that their movement departs from the actual Catholic Faith.
Unprofitable Servant • an hour ago After 58 years growing up with and attending the NO mass and loving our Lord greatly, they (Bishops) took it away from us when we needed it the most. I found the TLM about 20 mins away and never knew it still existed.
I sat there the first time, very few wearing a mask, there was no fear and such a great Transcendence that I never experience before. The 100+ year old church surroundings were just wonderful. This past Christmas High Mass was Mozart's mass in C major K. 220. It was like I was sitting at the gates of heaven never experienced a Holy Mass like it. I've been learning Latin, A few times I've gone back to NO and the fear still exists. I believe the English is fine but the Ad Orientem and receiving on the tongue on our knees must return if people are going to understand that Jesus is truly present before us.chooselife2012 Unprofitable Servant • 16 minutes ago Exactly true. I have asked the question, if all the changes in V 2 we're so great, why have so many left, why is the youth absent and most importantly what do 70% of so called Catholics no longer believe in the true presence ?
Speaking in regard to the NO - I attribute it to a complete watering down of the faith, removing the Tabernacle from behind the Altar to a side spot or worse yet in another room. Forcing people to stand and receive in the hand.
The TLM, is a completely different experience. Reverence, beauty, respect and yes tradition. Why should we be penalized or have that taken away, again!Robbi Unprofitable Servant • 44 minutes ago Can recall what you're talking about...Never understood the reason Communion procedures changed until much older. It should never have been changed. Humans need to kneel and bow to our Lord and Savior...It matters to keep us in the right frame of reference for life.
Lucy Pipes • an hour ago Our bishop restricted the TLM to one location in the entire diocese. I would have to give up my ministry as a catechist to make the 3 hour drive to go, so I have found ways to improve my worship in Mass. I wear a chapel veil, say St. Thomas prayers of preparation and thanksgiving before & after Mass, and kneel "up" instead of the sit/kneel like that is common even among the physically able. Most importantly, I receive kneeling and on the tongue. That last one slows things down a little bit, but that is also a good thing. Our current pastor says, "The body of Christ" as soon as the person who just received has stepped to the side and before the next person has stepped forward. He says it so quickly that it sounds like "The but of Christ" I break that up a little bit. We have a few other women who veil, and I'm hoping that, in time, others will begin kneeling to receive.
Yesterday I visited my Spiritual Director and we believe that the Church would see a big revival if they made two key changes to the NO: Ad orientem and reception kneeling and on the tongue.
KFMcGahey • an hour ago This is really about drawing deeper from the same well, where the water is clearer and more refreshing, and closer to the well spring, which is Christ.
mrstones4u • 2 hours ago My wife and I have a Catholic Church 1.5 miles from our house where they chose to have a pool chlorinater in the Baptismal font!!! Instead we travel 20 miles to An Institute of Christ the King Latin Mass. Over the two+ years that we have been going there, I asked at two different times two different Altar servers one 15 & one 17 ,"Why do you like attending the Latin Mass"? Both responded ,"BECAUSE OF THE REVERENT WORSHIP"! We even have a Priest from the Diocese that attends, he is 76 and says it's beauty reminds him of when he was younger!
AcceptingReality mrstones4u • an hour ago That's just nuts! It's gotta be worth the 20 mile drive....good choice.
mrstones4u AcceptingReality • 28 minutes ago A Couple of years ago a Nun who was on the staff there, sachied up to the Sanctuary in a Rainbow sach!
mrstones4u AcceptingReality • 30 minutes ago Last Saturday we went to the Sacrament of Reconcilliation there and after attended Mass only to have the Pastor share from our Bishop No Eucharist on the Tongue there! Really? Worth the 20 mile drive, where one can accept Jesus in a Reverent way. HE is God and I am not!
John Bedard mrstones4u • 2 hours ago • edited "My wife and I have a Catholic Church 1.5 miles from our house where they chose to have a pool chlorinater in the Baptismal font!!!"
OH, Dear Jesus, THAT IS SO SAD!
John Bedard • 2 hours ago • edited Michael, I think in a VORTEX, has said that bringing back the Latin Mass will not be a cure-all for the Church. I think we can agree on that, but, it would be a GREAT help. I'm 72 and was an Altar Boy at the Latin Mass, that's when I started seeing ABUSE during Mass. Abuse started way before Vatican II. The Liberal, Modernist, don't only HATE the Latin Mass, they HATE the NO Mass. In reality they not only REJECTED Vatican II they have REJECTED "ALL" the Councils. They are apostates & Pope Francis just said they are among the "Communion of Saints". In my life I was surrounded by "Cultural" Catholics going to Mass out of Obligation. I praise God for my Dad's conversion & speaking Truth to Power!
The young men in the video realize the reality that they NEED Order and Beauty in their life. They NEED something to DIE for. In this case "SOMEONE" to DIE for. I support what they are trying to do 100%! I personally don't need their book, I lived it.
The Birth Control Pill / The DEATH Pill is the ATOMIC BOMB that set the APOSTATES free to join the Sexual Revolution.Liberal, Nasty, Vicious, Lukewarm, Apostate, catholic's have rejected the KINGSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST!
VIVA CRISTO REY!
janofdet • 3 hours ago • edited It's not rocket science--modernism based on secular/political agendas, fed by millions and millions of dollars to try to "destroy" what cannot be destroyed! Young Trads.....God Bless You!
John R. • 4 hours ago Once you get past the error that you must understand Latin to fully participate, then you see just what a solid rock is the Mass of the ages and what thin-ice is the NO liturgy, This is especially obvious if circumstance brings you to attend the NO after having spent some time exclusively with the TLM - the mass, calendar, and devotions.
Robbi John R. • an hour ago • edited It's actually miraculous that anybody understands Latin since it wasn't taught or spoken at Mass often for decades; at least in this area. If not for the derivatives, it's doubtful anybody would understand anything. I would not understood any...Without Spanish since only the Novus Ordo was Mass in my lifetime until these recent years since Pope Benedict XVI. Never heard a TLM before grad school years ago...It was beautiful and special for a whole three months.
Tom Kaye John R. • 3 hours ago I have heard and read accounts of priests who were ordained in the Novus Ordo Rite tell how a certain change happened to them when they started to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.
janofdet Tom Kaye • 3 hours ago Fr. Altman comes to mind. Have not heard much about him lately. Hope he is doing well.
Drew Pointkouski • 4 hours ago • edited When the Leftists speak badly about something, we should already know they are wrong! When Bergoglio trashes Traditional minded Catholics, it is like Pelosi calling us nazis ... meaningless! They change and twist language to make things confusing but the Truth is perfectly clear. The Truth is easy to see, like the Light shining in the darkness! Remember the USCCB had to meet and discuss, whether they should make statement about the Eucharist, twisting, convoluted words, ignoring pro abort "catholics" unworthy reception, "dialoging" - i.e, verbal circle jerk, fearing that they would be unliked by the World! Do you think the Apostles needed to hem and haw about how to Preach about The Real Presence of Our Lord and Savior in the Holy Eucharist??? Our Leftist prelates are a sham ... we should be on our knees with our Rosaries everyday, begging Our Lord to remove these charlatans from office! Why would this pope try to suppress the Traditional Latin Mass? The same reason the Leftists are trying to destroy America! They work for EVIL.
Robbi Drew Pointkouski • an hour ago Is it really that simple? Simplicity is generally the best answer, for sure. All is so well orchestrated at every level of every aspect of society. Too orchestrated...Just doesn't FEEL right. It's a gut instinct...The kind of evil is just not adding-up. It's difficult for me to actually 'think' evil, but I can when I pray for answers.
springfieldlp Drew Pointkouski • 4 hours ago Drew, you have asked the most important question. Why is the pope attacking and restricting the TLM? What spiritual good can come of this? What harm are these faithful Catholics and their traditional priests doing to Mother Church? We must hold this pope to account for wrecking that which is only good.
John Paul springfieldlp • 3 hours ago We will soon see the “ecumenical mass” which will be the abomination of desolation described in the Book of Daniel.
Bobbie John Paul • 30 minutes ago Please don’t say that. It’s frightening to imagine. At the rate things are happening, it’s a possibility that the next unorthodox pope will indeed bring it about. It grieves me.
Tom Kaye • 5 hours ago • edited If Pope Bergoglio has never read Quo Primum shame on him.
If Pope Bergoglio has read Quo Primum may God have mercy on him.
Rick Pearl • 8 hours ago • edited I'm proud to be a Tradrad (traditional radical). In this civil war our enemies are Neom&ms or just m&ms (Neo-modernists&marxists.
Michelle Campbell • 9 hours ago • edited see moreTrying to maintain Modernism, 'the Synthesis of all Heresies' is just pathetic and
when these heterodox prelates act in ways hysterical, it's telling.
'...essentially slamming Traditional-minded Catholics and marginalizing the Latin Mass to completely destroy it' should have the Catholic young curiously asking
why? 'Spiritual Warfare' is what's going on and Holy Tradition IMHO is the cement that
the young want to connect with God and past souls who clung to the Faith in their families and those they read about who became saints.
Many Catholic ancestors took the calling to pray the rosary, fast, give alms, sacrifice, make reparation, do penance to console Our Lord & Lady and when done,
we sense Their pleasure and sweet smiles.
That one commenter who said they found their Irish grandfather who had passed away in his chair with his rosary in his hand...what a moment to remember and learn from. 🍀📿☘
Maybe Bergoglio the young insist on staying connected to Holy Tradition because their 'being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine' gets confusing and tiring.
You said, 'I want the confusion'.
These young Catholics are rejecting your ridiculous ideas wanting Eternal Substance and Matter found not only in consuming Our Blessed Lord in His Eucharist, but in the ancient Liturgy and Litany of the Saints.
WHEN SUNG, that Litany is powerful with Heavenly ears bent towards starving souls eager for connection with Saintly helpers....
Let us learn from these Catholic youth.
Bless you dear Alexander Tschugguel and dear EVER ANCIENT, EVER NEW author David Dashiell.
Thank you Michael. Was thinking about Alexander a couple of days now hoping
his Rosary town marches protesting those awful lockdowns were bearing fruit.
So good to see him again! God love you all.
Will remember you in my rosaries and chaplets this week.Thursday February 3rd Feastdays: St Blaise (316) B., M., Pt. of those with throat ailments; Blessing of Throats (Trad) 🗣 & St Ansgar (865) B., Pt. of Scandinavia. ✝️
Architect • 9 hours ago Good to see Alexander T. See on YT Taylor Marshall's recent remake of John Lennon's "Imagine." The new title is "Imagine No Felt Banners" and the video includes tossing Pachamamas into Tiber.
Architect • 9 hours ago "Unity of the Church" is usually peddled as the main excuse for the aggressive suppression of the Latin Mass. It's a 100% bogus excuse because those who use it are at the same time promoting, or being dead silent, about the plague of sodomy among Catholic priests and bishops. And nothing actually undermines unity in the Church as sodomite clergy.
Love for Vatican II is another 100% bogus excuse. If Bergoglio cared so much about Vatican II, he wouldn't sell out Catholics to the regime of China and let the marxists govt' pick bishops, which had been expressly forbidden at Vatican II (Decree Christus Dominus #20).
Tom Kaye Architect • 4 hours ago • edited If I may comment in addition to what you have written regarding "Unity of the Church". Who do these peddlers think they are trying to fool? Since 1570 AD when Pope St. Pius V issued Quo Primum, the supreme worship of the Church unified all Catholics worldwide. Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi (The law of what is prayed is what is believed is the law of what is lived.)
The widespread abuses that have been reoccurring nonstop throughout the Novus Ordo for over fifty years, i.e. "gay" Masses, is a deliberate attempt by some to subvert traditional Church teaching. Liturgical traditions provide a theological framework for establishing creeds and canons. Those who perpetuate these abuses know full well what they're doing. The attitude of experimentation in regards to the litutgy was introduced in different parts of the world immediately after Vatican II ended. The motivation for this experimentation has grown clearer and clearer as time has passed until we have come to the point where, for example, pachamama is now welcomed in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. This attitude, this motivation, this blasphemy can only divide.
Bobbie Tom Kaye • 12 minutes ago “Those who perpetuate these abuses know full well…”. That’s true Tom. Not all NO masses are like that. The NO mass seemed to have brought many people to the Church - but that was many years ago. Now the same mass (those with abuses) have pushed people away. I still believe there’s a place for both masses to coexist and remain in harmony. What Bergoglio is doing in his tightening marginalization of TLM is part of his forcing socialism into the Church. It’s politically motivated bc that’s who he is. What a shame.
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